Pub #brownchem: alpha137 @AbhasG
*** #brownchem :End of /NAMES list.
*** Mode is +
corrections in red
*** Signoff: AbhasG (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
*** skyye (hummer@randolphmax2-42.megsinet.net) has joined channel #brownchem
alpha137: hello
skyye: hello professor
*** skyye is now known as craigs
alpha137: Where are you by the way, oh chicago.
craigs: Pretty close to Chicago
craigs: Where are you from?
alpha137: From here they look the same!
alpha137: I am from Marin, Co. Calif.
alpha137: Where I grew up. I was born in Montgomery, Ala!
craigs: That's pretty far from Brown!
alpha137: Right.
alpha137: But I have been here for a long time.
craigs: Where did you go to college?
*** AbhasG (sonicboom@a3p44.hgo.net) has joined channel #brownchem
alpha137: Stanford
alpha137: hello AbhasG
AbhasG: evenin'
alpha137: craigs is just outside of Chicago, where are you?
AbhasG: sorry.. didn't get a chance to read the article... just got the message..
AbhasG: i'm from Wheeling, WV .. its about an hour from Pittsburgh, PA
alpha137: OK, we will just wing it.
craigs: sounds good
alpha137: We are trying to make a model of global warming using words.
alpha137: Thinking of all the components that might go into a computer program sometime.
alpha137: craigs and I made some progress last evening which I will summarize later.
AbhasG: k..
*** craigs is now known as Craig_S
alpha137: When I asked where we should begin with our model he said something like "start with the absorption of heat by carbon dioxide."
alpha137: craigs is becomming very facile with this irc stuff.
Craig_S: hehe, I was just out of practice for a while
Craig_S: Anyway
alpha137: Anyway, how does CO_2 "trap" heat?
AbhasG: bonds?
alpha137: Bonds implies that the electrons making the bonds are excited.
alpha137: What energy is necessary to excite the electrons in bonds?
AbhasG: heh.. kinetic?
alpha137: No
It might be KE. That is, if the molecule were to have an "energetic" collision the electrons in a bond could be excited. However, I was thinking of a magnetude. To break a bond would require hundreds of kJ/mol. Let us say, 500 kJ/mol. Then divide by Avagadro's number to get kJ/molecule and we come up with about 8x10^-19 J/molecule. We could ask, "what wavelength of light would that correspond to?" In other words, if we bathed that molecule with the "right" light energy what would that correspond to in wavelength? We have E (photon) = h*(frequency) = hc/(wavelength), where h = Planck's constant = 6.626x10^34 J-s and c = velocity of light = 3x10^8 m/s. The wavelength corresponding to this 500 kJ/mol bond is 239 nanometers (2390 Angstroms) an ultraviolet wavelength.
alpha137: What does CO_2 look like as a molecule?
AbhasG: O=C=O
alpha137: Right.
*** /CTCP PING from AbhasG replied
alpha137: Now it turns out that it is the energy of the vibration of the molecule that is of the order of infrared wavelengths.
alpha137: Looking at O=C=O how many distinct vibrations could you make the molecule undergo? You first Craig_S
Craig_S: At least two
Craig_S: three?
AbhasG: 4
AbhasG: =]
alpha137: Four it right.
alpha137: is right
Craig_S: how?
alpha137: I have a picture as a link to the transcript of our discussion of 7_26_98 in the irc thing on the web page.
alpha137: One is where the two O's go away from the central C.
alpha137: Another is where the two O's bend down and the C goes up.
alpha137: Yet another, having the same energy, is the same motion but in a perpindicular direction.
Craig_S: why isn't that considered the same?
alpha137: The fourth is an asymmetric motion of the two O's about the C.
AbhasG: hmm... ok.. so distinct vibrations means the same two O's and one C -- however, different placement arrangementst?
alpha137: It is the same. It is called a degenerate vibration. In a polyatomic molecule there are generally 3N - 6 distinct vibrations except for a linerar molecule where it is 3N - 5
alpha137: N = 3 for CO_2 so 3N - 5 = 4
Craig_S: brb, sorry
alpha137: These are quite specific and absorb light in a specific place in the spectrum.
alpha137: brb. Craig_S, you drining a soda?
alpha137: drinking.
AbhasG: does the fact that there are two o's versus, suppose one O and another atom of the same group change\
AbhasG: the number of vibrations?
AbhasG: "different" vibrations
Craig_S: back
alpha137: If we had O=C=S we would have the same number of vibrations.
alpha137: They would not be in the same place as O=C=O however.
certain symmetries would be broken by the presence of the S in place of the O.
AbhasG: you have to excuse me.. its been almost a year since i had chemistry.. i remember learning about naming organic compounds where we had to arrange different compounds, that had the same composition, but were arranged in different ways..
alpha137: Those were called isomers.
AbhasG: ooh.. right.. sorry.. go ahead..
alpha137: These isomers might also absorb IR (infared radiation) differently.
Craig_S: Why does O=C=S have exactly the same number of vibrations as O=C=O ?
Craig_S: Does it absorb radiation the same way, too?
alpha137: Because it is a linear molecule with three atoms.
alpha137: It absorbs the radiation in the same way, but at a different wavelength.
The broken symmetry will mean that the distribution of vibrational energies will be different between the O=C=O and the O=C=S. The different mass of C compared to S matters as well.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: What about water?
AbhasG: it works the same way too..
alpha137: How many different, fundamental, vibrations does it have?
AbhasG: its also linear...
AbhasG: 5
Not 5, but 3N-6 = 9-6 = 3 fundamental modes of vibration for water.
alpha137: Water is not linear.
Craig_S: is water linear?
alpha137: Water is bent.
AbhasG: [AbhasG] : uggh.. heh..
alpha137: Now you know.
AbhasG: hmm.. polarities?
alpha137: Well, polarities do have something to do with the absorption of light.
Craig_S: do we know how they affect light absorption?
alpha137: Yesterday, we spoke of a dipole moment. Know what this is AbhasG?
AbhasG: [AbhasG] : refresh please..
alpha137: And, yes water and carbon dioxide affect light differently.(click this link)
In different places in the spectrum.Click this link for a electromagnetic spectrum.
alpha137: A dipole moment is defined as two charges of opposite sign seperated by a distance.
AbhasG: ok..
alpha137: Now back to the absorption of light by carbon dioxide and water.
alpha137: Picture this. A light wave is moving in on a water molecule. How is it that the water "knows" it is there and how does the light wave know the water is present?
alpha137: Magic is not the answer.
AbhasG: attraction ... "the dipole moment" i guess...
Craig_S: They "see" each other??
alpha137: How do they "see" each other?
Craig_S: I was just joking, but...
alpha137: If water has this dipole moment how do you think light might "see" it?
Craig_S: photons
Yes, by some property of photons.
Craig_S: somehow
alpha137: A light wave (a beam of light if you will) is made up of zillions of photons.
AbhasG: do they not exactly see.. just sorta hit it?
alpha137: Think of a beam of light.
alpha137: What is the micro picture of a beam of light?
alpha137: Composed of all those photons in sychronization.
Craig_S: are photons of a certain energy attracted to a dipole moment?
alpha137: What is a light wave composed of?
Craig_S: Specifically, the dipole moment of CO_2?
alpha137: You could say that photons of a certain energy are "attracted" to a dipole moment.
AbhasG: it is the transfer of energy.. from electron to electron... through photons?
alpha137: A light wave, or beam of light, is composed of an electric field and a magnetic field.
Here, on this link, is a representation of the electric field part of a light wave. Perpindicular to the electric field is a magnetic field oscillating in the same way. In other words, light (a photon) is composed of electric and magnetic fields-hence the word, electromagnetic radition.
Craig_S: They never taught me that.
They should have.
alpha137: It is a transfer of energy from the light beam (photons) to the changeing dipole moment of the molecule. The energy goes into vibrational excitation.
alpha137: Well, we are learning.
alpha137: Point is, that the trapping of "heat" (I would rather say infrared radiation) by molecules is the fundamental way in which light interacts with matter!
Craig_S: When you say "light," you aren't refering to just the visible spectrum, are you?
alpha137: When I say light I mean the entire spectrum from uv to infrared including visible.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: If you go to the web page and the irc discussion of 7_26_98 and go about half way down I put in a link to a figure showing the black body emission of the sun and of the earth.
AbhasG: alright.. i understand that the "trapping" is the "fundamental way" .. i'm still sketchy on the actual interaction -- the dipole moments..
alpha137: There is also a representation of the absorption by water and carbon dioxide.
AbhasG: i can't seem to find the page..
alpha137: A beam of light is part oscillating electric field. The oscillation frequency is the frequency of the light-the thing that gives it its color.
AbhasG: understood ..
alpha137: It is under IRC Discussions
AbhasG: sorry.. but i can't find irc discussions either..
alpha137: When that light frequency matches the vibrational frequency of one of the vibrations in a molecule there can be an absorption of light energy.
alpha137: What URL did you use?
AbhasG: http://jcbmac.chem.brown.edu/
AbhasG: then i went to chem 12 envir. science..
alpha137: Scroll down to Summer course
alpha137: Not chem 12
AbhasG: aah.. sorry about that..
alpha137: Energy flows from the light to the molecule exciting the molecule. The molecule now contains the energy of one photon.
alpha137: Craig_S, you still there?
Craig_S: yes
Craig_S: just listening
AbhasG: hmm.. does the vibration frequencies of hte molecule change?
alpha137: So tell me C_S what happens to that excited moleule? What goes up also goes down.
Craig_S: It releases the energy it gained.
Craig_S: I'm guessing partly as IR radiation
alpha137: Right, and in what form?
alpha137: Right
Craig_S: what's the rest of the energy released as?
alpha137: Only if there are collisions will the excited carbon dioxide (or water) not release a photon.
alpha137: These are quanta of energy. They are released as units. That means that a particular molecule either will give up its energy in a collision (and not as light), or it will radiate.
Craig_S: Where does the IR radiation usually go?
alpha137: Where would you think the IR would go?
alpha137: Give me some guesses.
Craig_S: into space or back to earth/
alpha137: Right, the only two places possible.
AbhasG: does it have a specific direction for each photon?
alpha137: I would say so.
AbhasG: my guess is either the same direction it came in .. or the tangent to the point where it lets go..
alpha137: There are many molecule so on the average, as many emit up as down, and in every direction.
alpha137: The molecule may absorb the light in a specific orientation, but there are all possible orientations in the gazillions of molecules.
alpha137: Plus, the molecules are rotating and translating.
Craig_S: So does the greenhouse effect transfer heat to the surface mostly through convection or IR radiation?
alpha137: What happens when a molecule in an excited vibrational state makes a collision with another molecule?
alpha137: Well, answer this question and then we may know.
Craig_S: KE transfer
Craig_S: heat
Craig_S: is that the answer?
alpha137: Right. when an excited molecule makes a collision there will be a certain probability for the nonradiative transfer of energy often into KE.
AbhasG: ==== i'm sorry .. but i have to leave now... soccer practice ... i will definitely catch up on my reading.. and become A LOT more involved in the conversation.. till next time.. ===
alpha137: KE is heat.
AbhasG: thanx for hte patience..
Craig_S: bye Ab
alpha137: I am going to be on at 8:30 pm tomarrow evening
alpha137: You have soccer, but I have tennis.
alpha137: You can read this abstract at the IRC discn page.
AbhasG: ok.. i'll be there ... heh.. i play tennis too .. beginner.. but my girlfriend's family is a long list of state champions...
AbhasG: we'll have to play some time..
alpha137: It will be posted this evening
AbhasG: but i have to leave.. sorry for hte interruption..
alpha137: I will beat you.
alpha137: But I will not beat a state champ
*** Signoff: AbhasG (beat me eh? we'll have to see ;))
alpha137: OK, Craig_S it is just you and me.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: We are building our model.
Craig_S: yes
alpha137: Do you believe that water and carbon dioxide absorb IR in different places?
Craig_S: places?
Craig_S: on the molecule or in the atmosphere?
alpha137: Different parts of the spectrum, Different wavelengths.
Craig_S: yes
alpha137: In our model it seems that we have a part that heats the atmosphere and a part that send IR back to earth and a part that sends IR into space. OK?
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: In a word description we have taken the absorption of IR into account. What else do we need in our model?
alpha137: Just to repeat what I think you refered to earlier, this traps heat.
Craig_S: I'm thinking
Craig_S: We need to see what this trapped heat means in terms of practical situations
Craig_S: ?
alpha137: OK, like what practical situations?
Craig_S: Like how much the temperature will go up.
alpha137: Right.
Craig_S: How this affects crops...
Craig_S: domestic animals...
Craig_S: the economy...
Craig_S: etc
alpha137: The effects will be implied by our physical model. The model first.
alpha137: Lets back up.
Craig_S: ok. We need to know how much T will go up
alpha137: The sun emits light. Walk me down from there and tell me what you think happens.
Craig_S: ko
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: I am pondering how we are going to estimate the temperature change.
alpha137: For now, we just know that it will change.
Craig_S: Light hits the earth...
alpha137: Right. Then?
Craig_S: The earth radiates like a black body, near 300K, in IR radiation.
alpha137: Correct.
alpha137: Also, light is reflected by the polar caps and the clouds.
Craig_S: Some of this energy is trapped by gases in the atmosphere.
alpha137: Cannot forget that.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: Right, some of the reflected light (in the IR) is absorbed by the moleular vibrations of molecules.
Craig_S: so does the greenhouse effect make the heat just take longer to leave the earth?
alpha137: Yes.
Craig_S: Like the lid on a pressure cooker?
alpha137: The excited molecule in the atmosphere heat up the atmosphere by loosing their vibrational energy due to collisions.
alpha137: Yes, like the lid on a pressure cooker.
alpha137: Perhaps we can think of the lid as due to gravity. It is gravity that holds the atmosphere to the earth.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: Unlike a pressure cooker, the pressure is constant.
At a given altitude.
Craig_S: Does gravity ever let go of some atoms?
alpha137: Well, if the atom, or molecule attains the escape velocity it will leave earth.
Craig_S: I remember reading about that in a previous IRC discussion
alpha137: If you read one of the first LizK discussions you would know that the escape velocity does not depend on mass.
alpha137: Right.
Craig_S: So atoms almost never leave the earth, then, because it's very difficult for them to attain that velocity because they're too big.
alpha137: The chemical principle is that in a gas (more sharply in a liquid) there is a distribution of velocities.
alpha137: Big atoms, or molecules do not leave earth for that reason.
Craig_S: ok
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: Some fraction of light ones will have the escape velocity and will leave.
Craig_S: because of probability
alpha137: Water will not, hydrogen molecules will.
Craig_S: I remember.
alpha137: Basically, probability, but a bit more than that.
alpha137: For our simple model we can just think of the atmosphere having a constant composition.
alpha137: Over the history of the earth it has changed.
Craig_S: ok
Craig_S: wait
Craig_S: Isn't our model going to change in composition, at least for water and carbon dioxide?
alpha137: Back to the word description. You have sun light comming to earth, being absorbed as heat and earth radiating.
alpha137: You are right, our model has to have water and carbon dioxide changing!!! Other things as well.
alpha137: Our atmosphere is not static. Sorry, my error!
Craig_S: that's ok
alpha137: You have to watch the profs!
Craig_S: Everyone's human :-)
alpha137: I am willing to state that, excepting for geological deposits, the amount of water on earth is a constant. Same for CO_2, but it does go into limestone.
Craig_S: Can we leave these out of our model?
alpha137: Anyway, there is still a part missing from our model. What is it?
Craig_S: Is it water pessure?
alpha137: In a way. Over geological times the amount of water in the atm must change because we have ice ages.
alpha137: That is not the part of the model I was thinking of. What is most of the earth covered with?
Craig_S: Water.
alpha137: Right. The oceans.
Craig_S: Do we have to factor in the melting of the ice caps?
alpha137: Probably, because that would affect the amount of sunlight reflected back into space and not absorbed by the earth.
Craig_S: Wouldn't it also affect the amount of water in the atmosphere?
alpha137: The amount of water in the atm I would think would depend on the temperature.
alpha137: There is a link on 7_23_98 irc I think showing the vapor pressure of water vs temperature.
Craig_S: If you have one liter of water, you might have one mL in the atmosphere of a beaker. But with 1000 liters, you could have 1 L of water in the atmosphere of a really big beaker.
alpha137: No, it does not work like that.
alpha137: We are talking about the principle of equilibrium here.
Craig_S: oh
Craig_S: did I mention I took chem 2 years ago, hehe?
alpha137: If you have one drop of water at some temperature then in a closed space there will be a particular pressure.
alpha137: The number of molecule per unit volume will be be related to that constant P.
alpha137: So, naturally, if you have a larger volume you will have a greater number of molecules, but the same pressure and concentration.
alpha137: Gravity makes the bottle.
Craig_S: Then, the amount in the atmosphere is only dependent on the temperature?
alpha137: That would be our model.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: The temperature is the thing.
alpha137: Remember we were speaking of "feedback" yesterday?
Craig_S: If the temperature increases from 40 to 41 C, will the INCREASE of water in the atmosphere be smaller than a change in T from 30 to 31 C ?
alpha137: There is a link on one of the irc discn pages to a graph that will tell you exactly. It is an exponential dependence and so I would guess that more water vapor will result from the 40 to 41 change.
Craig_S: That's not good.
alpha137: This is a fundamental chemical principle.
alpha137: Right, that is not good.
alpha137: That is why I called this a positive feedback.
Craig_S: Maybe it should be called negative feedback.
Craig_S: jk
alpha137: The hotter the temp the more water vapor and therefore the hottet the temp.
Craig_S: Then why has the temp. gone in cycles for millions of years?
alpha137: Actually, there can be some confusion about the sign of the feedback. It may depend on the author. Certainly this is a NEGATIVE!
alpha137: Why indeed has the temperature gone in cycles.
alpha137: They seem to be more or less stable.
Craig_S: huh?
alpha137: I mean the cycles are repetitive.
Craig_S: ok
alpha137: sp.
alpha137: For example, as the earth cools
alpha137: the ice caps expand and more sun light is reflected and there is less warming.
alpha137: Also, water has a lower vapor presssure and there is less in the atmosphere also trapping less heat.
alpha137: This seems to take us in the other direction without limit.
Craig_S: does change in CO_2 affect the change in H_2_O ?
alpha137: I was suggesting for our model that we consider that for this brief time of ours since the industrial revolution that the temp is roughly constant.
alpha137: That the water vapor in the atm is around some ave value.
Craig_S: But can we really assume that???
alpha137: We put in some carbon dioxide from our burning HC. and that heats up the atm. by a tenth of a degree.
alpha137: I think that the atmosphere is a very dynamic thing. The temperature of the earth varies from place to place. In some overall average way the temperature remains within a certain range-for now.
alpha137: I mean constant in this way. The temperature during this interglacial period is pretty constant +/-.
Craig_S: but the tenth of a degree means more water vapor. This in turn creates positive feedback, which grows on itself more and more, doesn't it?
alpha137: In fact it is changes away from what we think of as normal that is the worry.
alpha137: Right to your last statement.
alpha137: Our model, as it exists in words, would lead to ever increasing temperature.
Craig_S: but then why has the earth had cycles?
Craig_S: yes
alpha137: There have to be bounds and so our word model is lacking some parts.
alpha137: One reason for minicycles is simply the way the earth revolves about the sun. It nutates.
Craig_S: how do we determine the bounds. Are there other important factors to consider, that could be the cause of the temperature cycles.
alpha137: In one of the graphs it shows CO_2 from about 1960 to 1990 and you can see oscillations. This is due to orbit effects.
Craig_S: We should probably include the net gain or loss of heat from one minicycle to the next in our model.
Yes.
alpha137: I am not sure if geologists understand why the glacial and interglacial periods occur when they do.
alpha137: Since we are trying to be simple we are focusing on a short time span, geologically speaking.
Craig_S: I mean from one summer to the next
Yes.
alpha137: That way we can consider the temperature "at some average value +/-"
alpha137: I think that we can easily put this orbital part into our model.
Craig_S: how?
alpha137: We still have not considered what to do about the ocean.
Craig_S: what do you mean?
alpha137: Well, back to the orbit. It is simply known by the physics of the earth going around the sun. There are simple computer programs.
alpha137: Now back to the ocean.
alpha137: The atmosphere is in contact with the ocean right?
Craig_S: yes
alpha137: What can happen?
Craig_S: heat transfer
alpha137: That is one thing.
Craig_S: IR radiation absorption
alpha137: To some extent.
Craig_S: ?
alpha137: We can think of that as a part of the heat transfer. So, OK.
alpha137: What else goes on in the ocean where carbon dioxide is concerned?
Craig_S: oops
alpha137: A big part of any model.
Craig_S: Can it change the amounts in the atmosphere?
alpha137: Sure. But what is it?
alpha137: What do you think? Make a guess.
Craig_S: as temp goes up, will it release CO_2 ?
alpha137: "it" being the ocean?
Craig_S: YES
Please don't shout.
Craig_S: I mean yes
That's better.
alpha137: What form does the CO_2 take in the ocean?
Craig_S: I don't know
alpha137: CO_2 + H_2O
alpha137: carbonic acid H_2CO_3.
alpha137: But this would be a relatively small effect compared to what I am thinking of.
alpha137: It has to be algea.
Craig_S: that's not fair
alpha137: Algea are a sink for carbon dioxide and they grow more as T increases.
alpha137: Right, it is not fair. And before we got into this I did not know myself.
alpha137: I went down stairs in this Geochem building and spoke to a geologist who does this kind of thing. Clemens is his name.
Craig_S: Then algea are a greenhouse inhibitor.
alpha137: Yes, I think so.
Craig_S: greenhouse=greenhouse effect.
alpha137: They HAVE to go into our model somehow.
alpha137: Right, from now on greenhouse = greenhouse effect.
Craig_S: Do we have info about how much they increase with increase T?
Craig_S: And also how much CO_2 they absorb?
alpha137: You should make a list of all the components we have come up with so far in our model. And I bet we do have info on the temp dependence of algeal growth.
Craig_S: Ok
Craig_S: so far we have...
Craig_S: CO_2
alpha137: I will have to scan some text by the Wally who mentions some of this and put it on the web page.
alpha137: sorry, go ahead.
Craig_S: H_2_0
Craig_S: algea
Craig_S: change from season to season
Craig_S: vapor pressure
Craig_S: reflective clouds and polar icecaps
Craig_S: what else?
alpha137: The sun itself.
alpha137: As a black body.
Craig_S: the rest of the earth?
alpha137: The earth as a black body.
alpha137: The oceans.
alpha137: Feedback principle.
Craig_S: Sorry, I have a tendency not to mention what I think is implied.
alpha137: Somehow we have to connect all these things.
Craig_S: Wouldn't that be done more easily with a diagram than with words?
Craig_S: that is, a diagram in conjunction with words?
alpha137: As I think I said, there is a link to feedback in one of the icr discussions. Yes, a diagram is best. And we can put in the work components on the diagram.
Craig_S: work components?
alpha137: work-I meant word.
Craig_S: gotcha
Craig_S: I can try to do that.
alpha137: For example, in a feedback system there is an amplifier. For us water vapor is a temperature amplifier. So in the block that means amp we write in water.
Craig_S: But I think I'll need at least a day to view all the stuff linked to the IRC discussions.
alpha137: The so called feedback is the fact that the vapor increases the T and that increases the amount of vapor.
Craig_S: always bigger increases
Craig_S: ?
alpha137: OK, do that. I will come on to this thing Tue eve about 8:30 pm, but you do not have to.
Craig_S: ok. When after Tuesday?
alpha137: Right, the way we have been thinking there are always bigger increases.
alpha137: I will also be on Wed evening around 8:30 pm and Thursday as well. I play tennis till 7:30 pm and this will be a nice way for me to cool off.
alpha137: If anyone shows up we will just discuss whatever.
Craig_S: Tennis is a fun sport.
alpha137: Yep, I love it.
Craig_S: I never took lessons, but pretty much anyone can play, regardless of skill
alpha137: I kind of run a tennis thing this summer. It is listed at the top of my main page.
alpha137: Well, if you have low skill you loose to those with greater skill.
Craig_S: lol, yep, that's true
alpha137: Unless you can play the psych game.
Craig_S: But isn't that part of the game?
Craig_S: Mental toughness
alpha137: It is a very mental game.
alpha137: My neighbor has his own court and so I play with him a lot.
Craig_S: It's great for keeping in shape, but isn't it hard on the knees?
alpha137: He is very good at the psych game.
Craig_S: hehe, that must be interesting.
alpha137: It is tough on all the joints of the leg.
Craig_S: How good is he otherwise?
Craig_S: Oh well, you only live once, right?
alpha137: Once my son, when little, came by. I had the guy 5 love where apon he told my kid "Andrew, this is going to be a come about you will never forget."
alpha137: The fellow beat me 7-5. I am still not sure what happened.
Craig_S: he psyched you!
alpha137: Actually, I am a much better tennis player than my neighbor.
alpha137: I have learned not to listen to him, or else give him back the same stuff. I learned from him.
Craig_S: You're in trouble if you can't give it back.
Craig_S: Where does your son go to school?
Craig_S: I mean, high school, elementary?
alpha137: My son is on the Appalachin trail right now. I graduated from college already and is now taking a long hike.
alpha137: He graduated that is.
Craig_S: did he continue the tradition at Stanford?
alpha137: He went to high school at Moses Brown in Prov.
alpha137: No, he did not go to Stanford, but to a small college in NY.
Craig_S: My dad went to Brown. He's pretty excited that I'm going there.
alpha137: My daughter went to Brown. No Stanfords!
alpha137: Great. When did your dad graduate?
Craig_S: 1972, but he was a poli sci major.
Craig_S: No science course for him!
alpha137: Did he know Len Schlesinger?
alpha137: My daughter was a poly sci major.
Craig_S: Hmm, he's not home right now, so I can't ask him this moment.
alpha137: I am going to cut out. "See" you soon. bye.
Craig_S: Bye
*** Craig_S has left channel #brownchem